the computer? like a bull?

Frendious --> hey Daniel..
Frendious --> did I tell you im going to Brazil in December?
Frendious --> I'm going for 4 weeks. I'm flying into Salvador and leaving from Fortaleza. The plan is to visit these places and the places inbetween. I am led to believe that this is the best part of Brazil :)
Dani L --> its the poorest part
Dani L --> its northeast istn' it?
Dani L --> isn't it?
Dani L --> south is rich where german and dutch descendants live
Dani L --> centre is Rio de Janeiro
Dani L --> northeast is desertic?
Frendious --> a bit im told. There are some really nice beaches.
Frendious --> but it isnt that poor. you have major cities there like Salvador and Fortaleza
Frendious --> i heard that brazilian tourists go to this region
Frendious --> like Sao Paulo
Frendious --> from Sao Paulo I should say
Frendious --> i will give you a more accurate view once i go :)
Dani L --> northeast is where the poores brazilians live
Frendious --> i suppose... but its ok. :)
Dani L --> its ok to you who are traveling with british pounds in your bank account!
Frendious --> hehe...
Frendious --> ;)
Dani L --> when is FIFA09 out?
Dani L --> and PES09?
Frendious --> PES nearly always comes out in october
Frendious --> let me check
Frendious --> PES 2009 released 17th October
Frendious --> on ps3/xbox360
Frendious --> on ps2 its 31st october
Frendious --> fifa is released 3rd october
Dani L --> cool :)
Dani L --> how did you find out so quickly?
Frendious --> play.com :)
Dani L --> :D
Frendious --> PES 2009 has official champions league mode :)
Dani L --> how will that work?
Frendious --> http://www.play.com/Games/Xbox360/4-/5501182/PES-2009-Pro-Evolution-Soccer/Product.html
Frendious --> watch the video. its abouit 1 minute long :)
Frendious --> do you like it>?
Dani L --> looks goo
Dani L --> good
Dani L --> but I don't like PES
Dani L --> I think it messes with the brain...
Frendious --> you never know.. they may have worked on the match fixing stuff
Dani L --> it is so obvious dude
Dani L --> sometimes you pick the ball on midfield and you can say: "the computer decided I'm going to score" as long as you don't make any silly mistake you do!
Dani L --> other times... it doesn't matter how well you play the computer decides your opponent will score and some incredible defensive failures start occuring...
Frendious --> hehe.. i know :)
Dani L --> and because you like the thrill of the game youut up with it.
Dani L --> you:
Dani L --> a) put up with it
b) accept it
c) absorb it
Dani L --> and eventually become demonized...
Frendious --> well, if you dont let the game effect you then it should be ok#
Dani L --> because you accept the "machine" to rule over you
Dani L --> you subject to it
Dani L --> you become subject to it
Dani L --> its the first step to become a "worshiper of the beast" that the Book of Revelation talks about
Frendious --> yes i know... but it depends how you approach the game
Dani L --> brb
Frendious --> if you dont take the game seriously then how can it effect you?
Frendious --> if you live/die on the outcome of the game, then you have a problem
Dani L --> hahahaha
Dani L --> i don't think you can rate injustice in degrees....
Dani L --> its either just or injust
Dani L --> if you accept injustice in any degree you are slowly loosing your soul...
Dani L --> the beast is a very atractive thing to worship
Dani L --> the beast = the computer
Dani L --> we need it (like ancient people needed bulls )
Frendious --> then we are slowly losing our soul by the way we live in the modern worl
Dani L --> that is true
Dani L --> unless you cleanse by Jesus blood
Frendious --> the modern world has many incorrect things that we "accept" unknowingly
Dani L --> unknowingly doesn't count as a sin
Dani L --> counts as ignorance!
Frendious --> but you feel the reprucussions of doing an act which is wrong
Frendious --> its like having sex with someone who has AIDS not knowing about AIDS
Frendious --> you will still gets AIDS
Frendious --> you can argue you shouldnt be doing it outside marriage... but say you married someone who had AIDS, and you never knew about AIDS
Frendious --> you feel the reprucssions of other peoples sin
Dani L --> obviously - what' so special about it?
Frendious --> im just saying that you could be ignorant yet you are being effected...
Dani L --> if your parents are sinners and live a wretched life the sons will suffer without even having began to sin
Frendious --> exactly
Dani L --> and.....?
Frendious --> so are you saying that if you dont know something is a sin yet you partake in it, it isnt a sin?
Frendious --> who's fault is the ignorance? parents maybe?
Dani L --> own
Frendious --> well, i think we are talking about different things...
Dani L --> depends...
Dani L --> fault of ignorance is with Religious Leaders who don't teach properly
Dani L --> and is with School Teachers who don't teach properly
Frendious --> yes..
Dani L --> and is with Rulers who "lock" knowledge
Frendious --> but it might be only them
Frendious --> might not i shoudl say
Dani L --> but there is always a certain amount of "own" fault when it refers to ignorance
Frendious --> try being a Religious Leader in the modern secular world. People laugh at you.
Frendious --> its society at fault too
Frendious --> modern socity being the result of many peoples sin
Dani L --> sin rules the flesh
Frendious --> indeed..
Dani L --> whoever is not born of the Spirit is ruled by sin
Dani L --> no matter how "holy" others may think he is
Dani L --> only those who accept the Son are enabled to be born of the Spirit
Frendious --> this is true..
Frendious --> they see "holy" in flesh terms
Dani L --> and even those who accept the Son ... most aren't born of the spirit because the "womb of flesh" is "too confortable"
Dani L --> its like the film "Matrix"
Frendious --> :)
Dani L --> prefering to be hooked to the machine is easier...
Frendious --> what many people fail to realise is that indulging in the flesh doesnt result in happiness
Frendious --> they keeping trying to make themselves happy... indluging more and more in more and mroe extravegent means
Frendious --> yet they have a constant emptiness in their hearts
Frendious --> and for all their effort, they cant fill it
Frendious --> and then the demons of depsair and depression appear...
Dani L --> yes
Frendious --> i think it's extremely difficult to function in this sinfull modern secular society without partaking in some kind of sin.. for the people who are not ignorant of the sins of the world, they may find themselves in a position where they partake in a sin to "fit into" the modern world...
Dani L --> God calls those who are willing to be holy
Frendious --> yes i agree
Dani L --> i.e. "separated"
Frendious --> but i think to live in a city like London with a job like ours, we are sinning
Dani L --> the difference between old and new testement is that old was the testement of the flesh: for you to be holy you had to be completely phisically separated new is the testement of the Spirit for you to be holy you have to be psiritually separated
Dani L --> Jesus said: "you are in the world but you are not of the world"
Dani L --> if the world hates you remember it hated me first
Frendious --> yes
Dani L --> for this to happen you have to become a spiritual being
Dani L --> i.e. not fleshly, not wordly
Dani L --> yes in the world and yes with flesh
Dani L --> but spiritual
Dani L --> a new creature
Dani L --> re-born
Frendious --> yes. i think if you tried to live in the modern world by the Word, you porbably would suffer a lot, but in the end, you win :)
Dani L --> not in a Bush way but in an Evangelical way
Dani L --> in the End the believers who held steadfast win
Dani L --> Jesus said: "but when the Son of Man returns - will he find faith on Earth still?"
Frendious --> well, daniel.. probably only very few...
Frendious --> they would probably living underground as outcasts i think
Frendious --> enemies of the sinful society
Frendious --> not willing to subject themselves to the flesh
Dani L --> not the flesh...
Dani L --> it will be simpler and harder...
Frendious --> oh yes.. probably worshipping some kind of leader as a God
Dani L --> last 3.5 years of Revelation say there will be three :
The Beast = A SuperComputer
The FalseProphet = SomeBuda or Pope or something...
The AntiChrist = Some super-charismatic world leader
Frendious --> Anti-christ
Dani L --> the part on the right of the = is my interpretation
Dani L --> the last two are widely accepted
Dani L --> the first one only some of us interpret that way
Frendious --> i think its hard to interpret what the Beast will be
Dani L --> no...
Dani L --> its very easy really
Dani L --> its obvious if you want to know what I think
Dani L --> what was a beast in old days? do you know?
Frendious --> not sure
Frendious --> well, the mark of the beast must somehow be un-christian
Frendious --> i think a microchip embedded in us isnt enough
Frendious --> well, if they ask you "do you remounce the Bible?" as a condition for getting the chip, then yeah :)
Frendious --> and without the chip you cant eat, have money etc...
Frendious --> also, many athiests in the world dont believe in God because they want "proof".. in their language because they are living in the flesh only, this is flesh proof.. that is to be seen with the eyes...
Frendious --> so this fals prophet and anti-christ will give them their "proof" with some outrageous "miracles" and make them followers.. they would probably say "I am God, here is your proof."
Frendious --> btu while preaching anti-christian things of course
Frendious --> it may not be like that, just an idea... either way, they would be anti-christian in their ways and unite all non-christians.
Dani L --> do you know what "a beast" is?
Dani L --> "An animal other than a human, especially a large four-footed mammal.
b. New England & Southern U.S. A large domestic animal, especially a horse or bull.
2. Animal nature as opposed to intellect or spirit: "So far the beast in us has insisted upon having its full say" William Dean Howells.
3. A brutal, contemptible person"
Dani L --> (sorry I didn't reply sooner: I was away from my desk)
Frendious --> yes, i do accept that it isnt literally an animal
Dani L --> the beast will be a super-computer and the mark will be some form of id to be identified by this beast
Dani L --> ancient days : beast: animal everyone needed to live by
portugal: besta de carga: "beast of loads" i.e. animal to carry loads
Dani L --> ancient days: bull: pull the plow
Dani L --> its an animal that does what its told and carries on until stopped regardless of what comes up
Dani L --> Moses days: people who worship the calf
Dani L --> calf is a small bull
Dani L --> a beast of load
Dani L --> what do we have today to replaces bulls?
Dani L --> what is it that does the uploads, the downloads
Dani L --> the boring tasks
Dani L --> the things we don't want (or don't have the power) to do?
Dani L --> what is it that everyone needs to live by?
Dani L --> a beast
Dani L --> i.e. a computer
Frendious --> yes but what is the mark of th beast?
Dani L --> the mark of the computer
Frendious --> in what form?
Dani L --> it already exists
Dani L --> that will depend on the technology used...
Dani L --> the prophecy is so so so so clear (for those who have eyes)
Dani L --> "and only with the mark of the beast will be allowed to buy or sell. those who have wisdom understand because its a human number , the number is 666"
Dani L --> in supermarkets today
Dani L --> the "standard" barcode utilised worldwide is one that has 666 on every single one of them
Frendious --> yes i can understand this interpretation
Dani L --> you can pick up you bottle of coke or your crisps and look at the barcode
Dani L --> it has a 666 on it
Dani L --> it doesn't mean humans will need to use this barcode
Frendious --> but wait, are you saying that the anti-christian aspect is the fact that people submit themesleves to be controlled by the computer?
Frendious --> the computer must be doing anti-christian things though
Dani L --> God was upset when the Jews asked for a King do you know why?
Frendious --> why
Dani L --> their first king was Saul
Dani L --> but God is supposed to be our king... not a human... much less a machine!!
Dani L --> God was outraged when the Israelites worshiped the calf
Dani L --> to worship God's creation instead of the creator is outrageous in God's eyes
Frendious --> it depends what the king stands for.. if he is suppose to guide us and want to be worshipped like a God it is different.
Frendious --> *not want to be worshipped i should say
Dani L --> to worships man's creation (the computer) which is a by-product of God's creation is even more outrageous....
Dani L --> therefore the bible clearly says: "whoever accepts the mark of the beast will be cast into the lake of fire"
Frendious --> i dont see anything wrong with a Religious Ruler who's role is to guide us on scripture
Dani L --> it doesn't matter if the mark is disguised as a "saffer form of ID" or whatever...
Dani L --> Christians Aware will immediatelly see it is the mark of the beast
Dani L --> sleeping "christians" will fall on the trap
Frendious --> yes..
Dani L --> the beast or the mark will not "preach" immorality or anti-biblical stuff...
Dani L --> their mere existence is immoral!
Frendious --> ok i see
Dani L --> because man are trusting a "machine" to control nature, and the world rather than trusting an omnipresent God that rules through his Spirit and His Angels
Frendious --> very subtle to people of the world.. but obvious to true believers
Dani L --> its diabollical the work accenture does (not now) but in the future
Dani L --> to implement computer control in every aspect of live:
taxes,
benefits,
travell,
telecomunications,
shopping, etc...
Dani L --> at the moment the computer is a "tammed" beast
Dani L --> i.e. it does what its told by "fair" ruler and "fair" laws
Dani L --> but when the AntiChrist and the False Prophet take over they will command the Beast in any way they want
Dani L --> and many will say "Amen"
Frendious --> but still Daniel, it will be simple and subtle and fool unbelievers
Dani L --> noD
ani L --> it will blatant
Frendious --> no i mean simple and subtle in unbelievers minds!
Dani L --> but the world's mindset will accept it as normal and necessary and something they are looking forward to
Frendious --> yet blatant for believers
Dani L --> there will be nothing hidden or secret about it
Dani L --> its just that an unbelieveing and rebel world does not accept that to have a machine controling sattelites, weather, water supplies, energy, shopping, travell, comunications, salaries, etc is a direct confrontation to a Loving and Omnipresent God that cares and gives joy and hapiness to those who love him
Frendious --> simple and subtle in a sense that people would have been moulded by society to accept certain things as normal, and this would be one of them
Dani L --> say the truth:
whouldn't you like a super computer to manage everything...
no more dozens of cards and passwords no more pins etc...
just a swipe of the mark
"just" salaries in time
"umlimited" communications "
100% effective " border and crime control etc/..
Dani L --> no more silly people answering the phone everytime you change internet provider or energy or any service
all services and goods together in ONE database
Frendious --> well, its different to the way we should live according to God's commandments and through Christ.
Dani L --> all IDs in ONE database
Dani L --> all historu in ONE database
Dani L --> all plans in ONE database
Dani L --> all rules and laws in ONE database
Frendious --> yes... all controlling
Frendious --> like some kind of manufactered fake God
Dani L --> helicopters flying to remote areas of the world to "mark" another human
Dani L --> like cattle
Dani L --> in the Anti-Christ (Satan incarnated) kingdom
Frendious --> well, Daniel well done :)_
Frendious --> i never put it together like you have jsut now
Frendious --> though i sort of knew itFrendious --> you affirmed it into my mimd :)
Dani L --> gonna paste this chat on my blog
Frendious --> put me "a friend". find and replace :)
Dani L --> :)
Frendious --> i always knew worshpping something of the world was being controlled by it and submitting to it
Frendious --> but i never thought to apply it to the Anti-Christ concept
Frendious --> God didnt intend for us to be run by machines to fullfill his commandments
Frendious --> you dont need material world to fulfill his commandments
Frendious --> i think though Daniel, like you need eyes for people to see it.
Frendious --> most people would say, its just a computer
Frendious --> buts is a fake God
Frendious --> tell me, did someone share this view with you?
Dani L --> more or less...
Dani L --> it was an article I read some 7 years ago that stayed in the back o fmy mind
Dani L --> it articulates between ancient babylonian alphabet
Dani L --> and english alphabet and the word "computer"..
Frendious --> tell me, at what point do you think the tamed beast becomes "untamed"?
Dani L --> in ancient babylon 6 = men
60 = men-god
600 = gods
Frendious --> because its sort of begum aready
Dani L --> 666 is = men+mengod+god
Dani L --> the beast doesn't have a will of its own
Dani L --> the beast obbeys algorithms and programming
Dani L --> even if it has neurnal networks for self-learning
Dani L --> it is still controled
Dani L --> but the beast does what it is told by its rulers
Frendious --> yes, by mans will and not God's will it will be sent commands
Dani L --> the problem is that those who write the algoritms and the programs will be used by the spirit of Satan to write them in a way for satan to take control of it
Dani L --> when the Anti-Christ comes he will control the beast very well and better than anyone else
Dani L --> maybe he comes as a hacker-guru who people will praise for "fixing" a bug on the super-computer...
Frendious --> i guess the question im asking you is what sort of things will the computer do at the request of the Anti-Christ?
Frendious --> are do you jsut mean all-controlling in nature?
Dani L --> the bible says the first 3.5 years will be of "peace and prosperity" and everyone will praise the beast and the false-prophet and the anti-christ
Dani L --> the next 3.5 will be terrible
Dani L --> chasing anyone who opposes it
Dani L --> killing and wars and catastrophes...
Dani L --> total mayheym
Frendious --> but what things will the computer do in its "untamed" form?
Frendious --> i find it difficult to grasp this concept.... or do you mean the fact that it is controlling everything, is its "untamed" form?
Frendious --> the fact that it plays God?
Dani L --> I didn't say untammed although I suggested it..
Dani L --> the Anti-Christ will control it
Dani L --> but maybe even the AntiChrist will loose control of it
Frendious --> yes.. but what will the Anti-Christ command the Beast to do?
Dani L --> and teh Beast will turn against the Anti-Christ apparently
Dani L --> like man (the creature) turned against God
the beast (the creation of man) will turn against Man
more or less like Karma LOL
Dani L --> this is thouroughly explored in movies and books:
"a super controling computer turned bad"
Dani L --> those films are considerd in turns as "prophecy" or "mockery" depending on the angle you look at them
Dani L --> to unbelievers its "mockery" (although they are aware it may happen)
to believers it can be "prophecy" if we interpret the prophecies of the beast the way I propose
Frendious --> we already have computers though that control us in way
Frendious --> just not as much yet
Dani L --> well - but say the truth:
isn't the most straigh-forward way to just let the computers do all the boring Admin hard-work
Dani L --> we cannot be bothered with too many paper-files etc...
Frendious --> well, we created a society that needs all this Admin work anyway... we didnt need to create that society ;)
Dani L --> lets have the computers running all those things and lets sit back,
watch TV,
do some sports,
dance,
travell and work in human relations ,
leisure ,
tourism ,
art, design etc...